Comments on: It’s called the “wizarding” world for a reason http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/ Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:06:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1 By: littlem http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-429 littlem Wed, 08 Aug 2007 03:30:25 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-429 Also, Bellatrix was married (although no kids - at least none we know about), and people do write what they know. And Tonks worked until killed, even after she had Teddy, although that still supports the exception-proving-the-rule argument. I also think a lot does seep into the subconscious that comes out in books and other artistic work that's not actually recognized until we see it on the page. But I will make many allowances b/c I too love the books more than I should (I don't even have the Chronicles of Narnia all in hardcover) - noting also, however, that I'm warmed by the author's example in that she, a single mom, did her job and ended up doing all right for herself and child. Also, Bellatrix was married (although no kids - at least none we know about), and people do write what they know. And Tonks worked until killed, even after she had Teddy, although that still supports the exception-proving-the-rule argument.

I also think a lot does seep into the subconscious that comes out in books and other artistic work that’s not actually recognized until we see it on the page.

But I will make many allowances b/c I too love the books more than I should (I don’t even have the Chronicles of Narnia all in hardcover) - noting also, however, that I’m warmed by the author’s example in that she, a single mom, did her job and ended up doing all right for herself and child.

]]> By: Isabel http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-411 Isabel Mon, 06 Aug 2007 21:41:00 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-411 <i>all the good characters noble, good-looking and thin.</i> Aw, what about plump Mrs. Weasley or round-faced Neville? The Malfoys, on the other hand, are always described as being quite handsome were it not for the unpleasant expressions on their faces. I didn't mind the athlete=turned-mum-slash-journalist thing, since I get the sense Quidditch players don't have a long career lifespan (like most athletes after all). Also, from what I've observed, it is quite normal for a boy Harry's age to focus more on the same-sex parent (especially when people keep telling him they look so much alike). If the books had been about a girl I suspec she would have focused more on the mother. And Harry didn't seem especially focused on his father more than his mother before Prisoner of Azkaban (well, except for when he got the Cloak). (I do agree with lots of things that have been said, by the way. But I also do love the books, a lot, way more than I should). all the good characters noble, good-looking and thin.
Aw, what about plump Mrs. Weasley or round-faced Neville? The Malfoys, on the other hand, are always described as being quite handsome were it not for the unpleasant expressions on their faces.

I didn’t mind the athlete=turned-mum-slash-journalist thing, since I get the sense Quidditch players don’t have a long career lifespan (like most athletes after all).

Also, from what I’ve observed, it is quite normal for a boy Harry’s age to focus more on the same-sex parent (especially when people keep telling him they look so much alike). If the books had been about a girl I suspec she would have focused more on the mother. And Harry didn’t seem especially focused on his father more than his mother before Prisoner of Azkaban (well, except for when he got the Cloak).

(I do agree with lots of things that have been said, by the way. But I also do love the books, a lot, way more than I should).

]]> By: Arianna http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-356 Arianna Sat, 04 Aug 2007 00:56:49 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-356 Oh yes, I thoroughly enjoyed him losing respect for all of his father figures - his father was a jerk, Sirius was worse, Lupin was a coward, Dumbledore , and I think she made some attempt at making Lily more important, especially when he sees the memories where people say personality wise, he might break rules like James but he's more a personality-clone of Lily... so it did kind of end with the opposite of the whole "you're just like James!" thing, and Lily's eyes I think has more than the meaning of making people who loved Lily help him, I think it's supposed to be the whole "eyes are the windows of the soul" thing and in spirit he was more like Lily than James... Oh yes, I thoroughly enjoyed him losing respect for all of his father figures - his father was a jerk, Sirius was worse, Lupin was a coward, Dumbledore , and I think she made some attempt at making Lily more important, especially when he sees the memories where people say personality wise, he might break rules like James but he’s more a personality-clone of Lily… so it did kind of end with the opposite of the whole “you’re just like James!” thing, and Lily’s eyes I think has more than the meaning of making people who loved Lily help him, I think it’s supposed to be the whole “eyes are the windows of the soul” thing and in spirit he was more like Lily than James…

]]> By: Mnemosyne http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-354 Mnemosyne Fri, 03 Aug 2007 22:58:57 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-354 <i>Or because she’s his mother and, yet again, mothers pale into comparison with fathers - even when both are absent and one’s death to save him actually protected him for almost his entire life?</i> To some extent, it's a not-inaccurate depiction of how a boy that age would think -- mom = boring, but dad = extra-super-cool action hero. Of course, a lot of that gets turned around starting as early as "Prisoner of Azkaban," where we find out that James' sneaking around almost got Snape killed. Lily does become slightly more prominent as the books go along, but I do think that JKR missed an opportunity to really have the two flip and have Harry end by regarding Lily as the hero she was, especially since (in retrospect) it was James' insistence that Peter could be trusted that got them killed. I think she did a good job of disillusioning Harry about his father (and all of the father-figures in his life, for that matter) but the mother and mother-figures never really came into prominence to compensate. Or because she’s his mother and, yet again, mothers pale into comparison with fathers - even when both are absent and one’s death to save him actually protected him for almost his entire life?

To some extent, it’s a not-inaccurate depiction of how a boy that age would think — mom = boring, but dad = extra-super-cool action hero. Of course, a lot of that gets turned around starting as early as “Prisoner of Azkaban,” where we find out that James’ sneaking around almost got Snape killed. Lily does become slightly more prominent as the books go along, but I do think that JKR missed an opportunity to really have the two flip and have Harry end by regarding Lily as the hero she was, especially since (in retrospect) it was James’ insistence that Peter could be trusted that got them killed.

I think she did a good job of disillusioning Harry about his father (and all of the father-figures in his life, for that matter) but the mother and mother-figures never really came into prominence to compensate.

]]> By: Arianna http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-352 Arianna Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:17:07 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-352 That being said, I'm still pissed off at all the casual sexism of the books, and think that she sort of squandered the possibilities of how the basic assumptions of how society was built would change if brute physical strength had never, ever been an advantage. The books make it pretty clear that any magic pretty much trumps any physical force. What would a world be like in which the average male's greater physical strength than the average female's had basically never been a factor? I admit that's probably asking a little much out of kids books though :) If I was the fanficcy sort, maybe I'd consider writing something about it... Disclaimer: I also read and loved the books anyway :( That being said, I’m still pissed off at all the casual sexism of the books, and think that she sort of squandered the possibilities of how the basic assumptions of how society was built would change if brute physical strength had never, ever been an advantage. The books make it pretty clear that any magic pretty much trumps any physical force. What would a world be like in which the average male’s greater physical strength than the average female’s had basically never been a factor?

I admit that’s probably asking a little much out of kids books though :) If I was the fanficcy sort, maybe I’d consider writing something about it…

Disclaimer: I also read and loved the books anyway :(

]]> By: Arianna http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-351 Arianna Fri, 03 Aug 2007 16:13:04 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-351 I've been struggling with that one for a long time, Pumpkin, because I really think Lily got sold short, even if she was a potions genius and all the spoilery things from DH. The only defenses I've been able to come up with are that a) James' friends just happen to keep walking into Harry's path, though it bothers me that they never talk about Lily even though to some extent they were her friends too - Sirius and Lupin were in Gryffindor with her, best friends with James while he was dating her, etc. and somewhat more understanably b) Lily is Petunia's sister. He *hates* the Dursleys and that is probably reason enough for him not to want to know anything about the Evans', since to him they would be the people that spawned Petunia and thereby Dudley. I’ve been struggling with that one for a long time, Pumpkin, because I really think Lily got sold short, even if she was a potions genius and all the spoilery things from DH.

The only defenses I’ve been able to come up with are that a) James’ friends just happen to keep walking into Harry’s path, though it bothers me that they never talk about Lily even though to some extent they were her friends too - Sirius and Lupin were in Gryffindor with her, best friends with James while he was dating her, etc. and somewhat more understanably b) Lily is Petunia’s sister. He *hates* the Dursleys and that is probably reason enough for him not to want to know anything about the Evans’, since to him they would be the people that spawned Petunia and thereby Dudley.

]]> By: pumpkin29 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-344 pumpkin29 Thu, 02 Aug 2007 15:19:30 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-344 Or maybe the kids, being kids (and like many adults), like having someone to wait on them hand and foot? What about the fact that he is so desperate to meet James' friends, find out more about James, and doesn't really even seem to consider Lily as being such an important part of his heritage? Because she's a muggle-born? Or because she's his mother and, yet again, mothers pale into comparison with fathers - even when both are absent and one's death to save him actually protected him for almost his entire life? Pah. Disclaimer: I still read and loved the books. Sorry. Or maybe the kids, being kids (and like many adults), like having someone to wait on them hand and foot?

What about the fact that he is so desperate to meet James’ friends, find out more about James, and doesn’t really even seem to consider Lily as being such an important part of his heritage? Because she’s a muggle-born? Or because she’s his mother and, yet again, mothers pale into comparison with fathers - even when both are absent and one’s death to save him actually protected him for almost his entire life?

Pah.

Disclaimer: I still read and loved the books. Sorry.

]]> By: ellenbrenna http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-326 ellenbrenna Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:18:06 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-326 If Muggle-borns are of lower status most of them may not be willing to further jeopardize their status by fighting for the rights and freedoms of a group percieved to be even lower than themselves. If Muggle-borns are of lower status most of them may not be willing to further jeopardize their status by fighting for the rights and freedoms of a group percieved to be even lower than themselves.

]]> By: Nenena http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-314 Nenena Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:56:44 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-314 Heeee, I was going to link to the article that Mnemosyne already linked. But yeah, word on the last paragraph to this post: that was exactly my problem with the epilogue to the book. I think it's sweet that Our Heroes are married and having kids, but I was irked that although Neville's career got mentioned, nothing was said about Hermoine other than the fact that she was a mother. I never doubted for a minute that Hermoine would have a brilliant career in some field or another, but I wish that Rowling had thought to mention that in the epilogue itself, rather than in an internet chat several days later. And I love Ginny's story: professional athlete, then professional journalist. I'm not very bothered by the fact that she quit her athletic career, because that's a common pattern that male athletes fall into as well. Spend several years as a professional athlete, then retire and become a journalist/broadcaster reporting your former sport. Heeee, I was going to link to the article that Mnemosyne already linked. But yeah, word on the last paragraph to this post: that was exactly my problem with the epilogue to the book. I think it’s sweet that Our Heroes are married and having kids, but I was irked that although Neville’s career got mentioned, nothing was said about Hermoine other than the fact that she was a mother. I never doubted for a minute that Hermoine would have a brilliant career in some field or another, but I wish that Rowling had thought to mention that in the epilogue itself, rather than in an internet chat several days later.

And I love Ginny’s story: professional athlete, then professional journalist. I’m not very bothered by the fact that she quit her athletic career, because that’s a common pattern that male athletes fall into as well. Spend several years as a professional athlete, then retire and become a journalist/broadcaster reporting your former sport.

]]> By: Mnemosyne http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-313 Mnemosyne Tue, 31 Jul 2007 04:11:13 +0000 http://kindlypogmothoin.com/2007/07/30/its-called-the-wizarding-world-for-a-reason/#comment-313 <i>Rowling walks the line between exposing stereotypes and relying on them to do some of her characterization for her, such as when she makes all the bad characters (or at least those you’re not supposed to identify with) lumpy, misshapen, hook-nosed, greasy-haired, sallow-skinned, toadlike and/or fat, and all the good characters noble, good-looking and thin.</i> I mostly agree, but there are two exceptions to that rule. Except, damn it, I think it's a spoiler to name them! She always has at least one exception to the rule she establishes, which doesn't really work against the rule as well as she thinks it does. I think she spent so much time re-thinking the racism and xenophobia of C.S. Lewis that she didn't spend enough time thinking about the sexist stereotypes that she was perpetuating. But at least she said in her post-release internet chat that one of the female characters goes on to be a professional athlete ... before she retires to have kids. Sigh. (Have kids and be a journalist, at least. But still. Anyone think that Lisa Leslie is going to retire entirely just because she had a kid?) (Fine, <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070730/ap_en_ot/potter_s_afterlife;_ylt=AvPI7Clas3ZXb1hS.cmFPWsDW7oF" rel="nofollow">here's the link</a>, but no whining that OMG there are SPOILERS!!!11!!) Rowling walks the line between exposing stereotypes and relying on them to do some of her characterization for her, such as when she makes all the bad characters (or at least those you’re not supposed to identify with) lumpy, misshapen, hook-nosed, greasy-haired, sallow-skinned, toadlike and/or fat, and all the good characters noble, good-looking and thin.

I mostly agree, but there are two exceptions to that rule. Except, damn it, I think it’s a spoiler to name them!

She always has at least one exception to the rule she establishes, which doesn’t really work against the rule as well as she thinks it does.

I think she spent so much time re-thinking the racism and xenophobia of C.S. Lewis that she didn’t spend enough time thinking about the sexist stereotypes that she was perpetuating.

But at least she said in her post-release internet chat that one of the female characters goes on to be a professional athlete … before she retires to have kids. Sigh.

(Have kids and be a journalist, at least. But still. Anyone think that Lisa Leslie is going to retire entirely just because she had a kid?)

(Fine, here’s the link, but no whining that OMG there are SPOILERS!!!11!!)

]]>